The Anglican-Methodist Covenant

This is modified from something I posted elsewhere, but I thought that a discussion here might be beneficial to me because of where I am currently.

We the Methodist Church of Great Britain and the Church of England, on the basis of our shared history, our full agreement in the apostolic faith, our shared theological understandings of the nature and mission of the Church and of its ministry and oversight...

It seems to me that this covenant fails from the start because it is based on a lie - the quote above sounds like a typical Anglican fudge. At least there's one practice that we now seem to be sharing with each other. Whence comes this full agreement in the apostolic faith? (And I noticed the lower-case letters here). Did I miss this one?

And surely we do not have a shared theological understanding of the nature of the Church, otherwise the Church of England would never have seen the question of the validity of Methodist orders as an issue. It is clear that the Apostolic Succession through tactile Episcopal succession is seen as vital to the existence of the Church by one group, and not by the other. To say that we have a shared understanding of this is nonsense, because if we did, the validity or invalidity either of our orders would not be an issue.

I can understand the difficulty of the Methodist position. The issues here are the same as any other theological issue, in that a large proportion of regularly worshipping members of any church just 'go to church' and do not spend their days studying the finer points of their churches' beliefs. This is perfectly acceptable, as there is more to the Christian life than this.

Before people 'in the pews' (at the risk of sounding patronising) of both Methodist and Anglican churches can begin to develop an understanding of why there is a question about the validity of Methodist Orders, they first have to take a big step back and consider something that may previously have never even crossed their minds, yet Methodists are being asked to think about the validity of their orders, when for some of them, the concept of validity is not one that has ever entered their consciousnesses. The starting point is different depending on who you talk to, and to state that we have a shared understanding of the nature of the Church is fallacy.

My views on this sort of things are this. We celebrate the Sacraments as they have been given to us through Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition. A celebration outside of these norms, not following the practice of the Church is not instantly condemned as invalid, nor as devoid of God's grace - God may bestow his grace wheresoever and howsoever he so desires - but a degree of uncertainty is introduced by such actions, as there has been a deliberate departure from the Sacramental norms which are guarantors of God's grace.

This is what happens when priests use custard creams instead of bread at Mass, and this is what happens in having a priest perform "ordination" instead of a bishop. I would receive Communion in a Methodist church - indeed I have, but I could not be certain that what I have received is indeed the Body of Christ because I cannot be certain that the person standing in front of me is a priest. (S)he may well be - God may have decided to work through this community of Faith, where genuine people have come to worship God - but there would still be doubt because the norm for Ordination would have been departed from. I do not believe that this is the sort of thing that we ought to be enshrining in our official procedures. If full visible Christian Unity is really something that the Church of England is genuinely concerned about, then introducing further doubt into the validity of its orders is not the way to go about it.

I truly believe that honesty about what divides us is essential to healing, rather than pretending the differences do not exist, which, to some degree, is what this covenant is doing. We need to start afresh and thrash out these differences, instead of papering over the cracks.

It is precisely this sort of thing that is making me more and more convinced that I cannot remain within Anglicanism. Having said that, our High Mass for Easter Day this morning brought tears to the eyes of people, as this church has been used to a much higher tradition, but has not done anything of this nature for over 25 years. We trained the servers and borrrowed some tat, but all of the efforts paid off. I am loving being part of re-establishing this tradition that has been lost to this church, and the thundering organ with some fantabulous hymns is something that I would severely miss - it is this that drew me to church in the first place.

This really is difficult.

Pascha nostrum immolatus est Christus

The Easter Sermon of St John Chrysostom.

Are there any who are devout lovers of God? Let them enjoy this beautiful bright festival!
Are there any who are grateful servants? Let them rejoice and enter into the joy of their Lord!
Are there any weary from fasting? Let them now receive their due!
If any have toiled from the first hour, let them receive their reward.
If any have come after the third hour, let them with gratitude join in the feast!
Those who arrived after the sixth hour, let them not doubt; for they shall not be short-changed.
Those who have tarried until the ninth hour, let them not hesitate; but let them come too.
And those who arrived only at the eleventh hour, let them not be afraid by reason of their delay.
For the Lord is gracious and receives the last even as the first.
The Lord gives rest to those who come at the eleventh hour,
even as to those who toiled from the beginning.
To one and all the Lord gives generously.
The Lord accepts the offering of every work.
The Lord honours every deed and commends their intention.
Let us all enter into the joy of the Lord!
First and last alike, receive your reward.
Rich and poor, rejoice together!
Conscientious and lazy, celebrate the day!
You who have kept the fast, and you who have not,
rejoice this day, for the table is bountifully spread!
Feast royally, for the calf is fatted.
Let no one go away hungry.
Partake, all, of the banquet of faith.
Enjoy the bounty of the Lord's goodness!

Let no one grieve being poor, for the universal reign has been revealed.
Let no one lament persistent failings, for forgiveness has risen from the grave.
Let no one fear death, for the death of our Saviour has set us free.
The Lord has destroyed death by enduring it.
The Lord vanquished hell when he descended into it.
The Lord put hell in turmoil even as it tasted of his flesh.
Isaiah foretold this when he said,
"You, O Hell, were placed in turmoil when he encountered you below."

Hell was in turmoil having been eclipsed.
Hell was in turmoil having been mocked.
Hell was in turmoil having been destroyed.
Hell was in turmoil having been abolished.
Hell was in turmoil having been made captive.
Hell grasped a corpse, and met God.
Hell seized earth, and encountered heaven.
Hell took what it saw, and was overcome by what it could not see.

O death, where is your sting? O hell, where is your victory?
Christ is risen, and you are cast down!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life is set free!
Christ is risen, and the tomb is emptied of its dead.
For Christ, having risen from the dead,
is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
To Christ be glory and power to the ages of ages. Amen!

New Rome?

What does this mean? Please would somebody explain this term as it applies to the Oecumenical Patriarch's Archbishopric? Does it have something to do with a concept of a vacancy in the See of Rome or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I'd be very grateful. Many thanks.

Rachel weeping for her children

A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more. - Jeremiah 31: 15

Of your charity, please pray for the souls of all the unborn dead, that they may find light, peace and eternal life. May they, and all the faithful departed, through the + mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.

I have written the following prayer, which some may find helpful. It is in keeping with this season of Passiontide.

God our Father, who formed our inward parts and knit us together in our mother's womb; as we meditate on the mystery of Christ's death and burial, help us to share in the grief of blessed Mary. Hers was the womb from which your beloved Son took human flesh, and so redeemed the world. Grant to all the unborn dead the grace that they would have received in Baptism. Turn the hearts of those who would end the lives of your little ones, for you have searched us and know the secrets of our hearts. Grant this through Jesus Christ, your only Son our Lord, Who lives and reigns with you, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.

The Onion Dome

For your amusement.

There's this friend of mine...

...about whom I am rather worried.

He is 19. I have known him for about a year and we have become rather close. He is not from a religious background, but a couple of years ago came to an awareness of Christianity.

He has got involved with an independent "pentecostal" group, and is now very much a part of their community. Not only are they not within the Apostolic Succession, they do not have any concept of what it actually is. He asked about my church and I was trying to explain to him why the Mass means as much as it does to me as being central to the Christian Faith but his understanding was on a totally different level as he didn't even have a concept of Sacramental grace. From what he has said, this group sounds rather biblical fundamentalist. His parents, who are not opposed to religion, have raised concerns about his involvement with this group, especially as his 12-yr old brother has also expressed an interest.

When we began to talk about this in more depth, he said that he would rather not talk about it any further, as he didn't want to have an argument. This rather surprised me, because I am accustomed to discussions of a religious nature with friends, both in person and online, where we thrash out our ideas, often completely rubbishing each other's deeply-held beliefs, and then going to the pub together with no damage to our relationship whatsoever. If anything, such exercises help me to understand opposing views, and help me to understand my friends better than I otherwise would. It seems that he has not reached a level of maturity to be able to distinguish between intelligent discussion between people of opposing views and an argument. You will be pleased to read that I was not suffiently patronising to tell him this, but instead I suggested that he might enjoy reading some message boards, even if he preferred not to post. I recommended some that I know have posters of various traditions, but he saw this as very intrusive and did 'not want to be told what to do'.

I am sure that some of my concerns are the same as those of his parents, and I really do not know what to do do, if anything. This is his life, but I do have another friend who became involved in a similar group at a similar age. He is now 24 and has got past most of the psychological trauma that this caused. I do not want to see the same thing happen to my younger friend, but I am aware that any persistence on my part will just strengthen his determination to continue.

Please pray.

Sacred Scripture

How would I get my hands on a copy of the Bible that contains the Orthodox Canon? I have done a bit of googling and reading of some Orthodox links, and I have come up with bits and bobs, but really I am after one volume with the books of the Orthodox canon in the Orthodox order.

Would anybody point me in the right direction?

Many thanks.

Gloria, laus et honor

Some verses from J. M. Neale's Translation, which do not appear in our hymnals:

They by their birth were Hebrews
but by thy saving grace,
we, in thy death adopted,
are made thy chosen race.

We to high heaven ascending
leave earthly things below,
and learn from sweeter virtues
foul vices to forego.

So in our fathers' footsteps
may we by faith uphold
the innocence of children,
the wisdom of the old.

Our fathers' pious customs
let us then not neglect;
so may thy grace abounding
in heavenly paths direct.

Will anybody be taking the Blessed Sacrament in Procession on Sunday? I believe that in most of the continent, the Cross was seen as the symbol of Christ in the Palm Sunday Procession, in Germany, it was a palmesel (a wooden figure of Christ on a donkey, carted on wheels), and at Sarum, it was the Blessed Sacrament. Does anybody maintain any of these practices?

Communion - Orthodoxy and Rome

I know that each recognises the other, and the Sacraments of the other, as being valid. However, I know that both agree that there is a schism (although there is a slight difference of opinion over exactly who went into schism). With that in mind, are there any occasions where Communion is permitted in one by a member of the other? If so, what sort of situation would this happen in? I know that my questions are coming thick and fast this weekend, but my curiosty is being aroused. Many thanks.

Orthodox Clergy and Beards

An Orthodox priest

Why do Orthodox clergy wear beards? Is this compulsory or a matter of choice? Does it vary from one jurisdiction to another?

Crux fidelis

We adore thee O Christ, and we bless thee,
because, by thy holy Cross, thou hast redeemed the world.

Please would somebody explain the symbolism of the Orthodox Cross? I have seen this a few times but have never known what the additional bars or letters are.

Many thanks.

Western Iconography

Ladye of Walsingham, be as thou hast been:
England's Protectress, our Mother and our Queen!

I must admit that I find it a little strange to find an icon of Our Lady of Walsingham. I have seen a few icons depicting western Saints and aspects of western spirituality and have always felt that, somehow, it doesn't quite fit. I suppose this is because I am something of a purist in most walks of life. I believe that each tradition has its riches, but that one element of a tradition, separated from the other elements of that tradition, loses much of its value without the grounding that the whole provides. It needs context in order to be effective.

Icons are not traditional in western expressions of the Faith, and, although I love them dearly (and use one in my own private devotion), I cannot help but feel a little uncomfortable (although that is too strong a word for the sense that I am trying to convey) when I see them used for public veneration in western churches.

Is this a little silly of me? I'd be interested to know what people's thoughts are.

The Celtic Orthodox Church

Are they actually in communion with anybody apart from themselves?

I mean nobody any offence, but this looks a little dubious. The fact that I have never heard of them, I admit, means little, but although they claim to be 'a communion within the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ', this is open to a rather broad interpretation, and none of the links on their website are to anything that I recognise, but only to similar churches in France and Switzerland.

Are they real? If so, who are they?

Thank you.

Light bulb jokes

Below are a few gems I've picked up over the years. No group comes out unscathed so please do not take offence.

How many Orthodox does it take to change a light bulb?
Change? What is this 'change'?

How many Anglo-Catholics does it take to change a light bulb?
Two: one to change the bulb and his 'friend' to mix the gin and tonic.

How many Anglicans does it take to change a light bulb?
None: they're all too busy affirming it in its brokenness.

How many protestants does it take to change a light bulb?
None: they all dwell in eternal darkness.

How many Roman Catholics does it take to change a light bulb?
Change? Change?!! My grandfather gave the church that light bulb!

If you have any others, I'd love to hear them.

A. P. Herbert

Some quotes.

The concept of two people living together for 25 years without having a cross word suggests a lack of spirit only to be admired in sheep.

It's hard to say why writing verse
should terminate in drink or worse.

Well, fancy giving money to the Government! Might as well have put it down the drain.

Holy Mother, we do believe
that without sin, thou didst conceive;
may we now, in thee believing,
also sin without conceiving.

What a truly wonderful man!

Who was this character, and can anybody tell me more about him? Thanks.

Coming out

When I was 16, I was considering converting to Roman Catholicism. I was even on the RCIA course at my local RC parish church. This proved to be an exercise in futility, as I was being treated as a child. All it served to do was to demonstrate the ignorance of this particular deacon about Anglicanism. I can only imagine that he had read some four-page guide on What Anglicans believe, as he had so many misconceptions about us that the course became increasingly frustrating with each session, as he made known his assumptions that I wouldn't know about the Real Presence, or vestments, or the number of Sacraments, or what the role of a priest is at Mass. It was this that made me give up in the end. Do English RCs really think that all Anglicans are raving protestants?

However, my little rant aside. While all of this was going on, it was very difficult of me to tell people who knew me well that I was considering leaving Anglicanism. It isn't just about belief: there are both an entire network of people and a whole culture to leave behind, and people can see this as a rejection of that, even if they are understanding about the faith aspect of it.

Nearly six years later, I am concerned about the same. I do not know yet what will happen over the next few weeks, months or years, but there are certain of my friends to whom I could not even show this blog without eliciting a bad reaction. I am very much at the beginning of my questioning and searching, and so I have no intention of saying anything to anybody that may cause upset, but if I get to the point where a decision is made, this is something that I shall have to do. There are ordained friends of mine, both male and female, who could see this as a rejection of their entire ministries and the validity of their orders, which they hold so dearly.

In my reading of scripture, the Fathers and in my own reasoning, I can find no convincing theological objection to the ordination of women to the priesthood. However, I do not believe that I alone, in my reasoning, can discern the Truth. Orthodoxy has not accepted this, whether because it is felt to be impossible, or because it believes that the Church must decide this as a whole, through an oecumenical council. In any case, I must follow what the Church teaches. I do not reject Anglican Orders, regardless of who they are conferred upon, but if I do convert, I can see how many of my friends may think that I do reject them, and much else that comes along with Anglicanism.

There must be people reading who have converted at some point and faced the same issue. How did you go about coming out? Did it cause any permanent rifts? Did your removal of yourself from a culture in which you had spent most of your life cause you any degree of lasting pain?

I would be very glad to hear back.