tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post114725404138779073..comments2023-10-17T12:44:50.593+01:00Comments on Synaxis: Concerns about the Western RiteMichaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04972938279831428593noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1158870451910148022006-09-21T21:27:00.000+01:002006-09-21T21:27:00.000+01:00Hello EveryoneI have made a Web site about organiz...Hello Everyone<BR/><BR/>I have made a Web site about <A HREF="http://motiv84u.com" REL="nofollow">organizational leadership</A>. <BR/><BR/>I hope you check it out.<BR/><BR/>http://motiv84u.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147957435397923202006-05-18T14:03:00.000+01:002006-05-18T14:03:00.000+01:00Catherine the Great invited them, as they were goo...Catherine the Great invited them, as they were good farmers who were fleeing religious persecution. She said they would not have to do military service, but they had to agree not to evangelise.<BR/><BR/>I haven't seen the modern retelling of MM so I can't comment on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147919639732665572006-05-18T03:33:00.000+01:002006-05-18T03:33:00.000+01:00I've heard of hte Russian and Ukranian Anabaptist ...I've heard of hte Russian and Ukranian Anabaptist communities, but never heard of any cross conversions. IIRC they were invited their by the tsar in hopes that they would teach the locals their superior farming techniques.<BR/><BR/>Actually that forum, Orthodox Village, was initially started by a group of Orthodox Christians with the intention of forming Orthodox Intentional Communities. There Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147906853640271442006-05-18T00:00:00.000+01:002006-05-18T00:00:00.000+01:00Interesting threads, Joe!My grandparents came here...Interesting threads, Joe!<BR/><BR/>My grandparents came here from Russia, where although they had separate communities, they were in contact with the local Russian Orthodox population. Their ancestors came to Russia under the condition that they not evangelize the Russians, so there was not much conversion going on. (Although I do know one elderly Russian woman who married into the Mennonites.) IAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147904782580229102006-05-17T23:26:00.000+01:002006-05-17T23:26:00.000+01:00Thanks for the links, Joe. I will check them out.I...Thanks for the links, Joe. I will check them out.<BR/><BR/>I don't know about the Ausbund, but you can purchase "Martyrs Mirror" on the Mennonite Publishing Network's website. Just type it into the search box here:<BR/>http://mpn.os.mennoniteusa.org/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147902707985869222006-05-17T22:51:00.000+01:002006-05-17T22:51:00.000+01:00Confused Rambler:here are a few links where it was...Confused Rambler:<BR/><BR/>here are a few links where it was discussed by several people including at least one OO Anabaptist:<BR/><BR/>http://www.orthodoxvillage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=99&highlight=amish<BR/><BR/>http://www.orthodoxvillage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=201<BR/><BR/>Those two are specific. If you peruse the various threads in the following link, you'll be able to glean more Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147884754144867062006-05-17T17:52:00.000+01:002006-05-17T17:52:00.000+01:00Hi Joe,Yes, please provide the link. I would be in...Hi Joe,<BR/><BR/>Yes, please provide the link. I would be interested. <BR/><BR/>However, note that I have not been and will not be baptized in any flavour of Anabaptist church. My future baptism would be Anglican. Anabaptism is what I am leaving (or rather, left years ago) and I haven't hung on to many of their distinctive tenets (except one).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147846437704206702006-05-17T07:13:00.000+01:002006-05-17T07:13:00.000+01:00Confused Rambler:It should be noted that particula...Confused Rambler:<BR/><BR/>It should be noted that particularly in the area of the world you are in--you most likely would not be Rebaptized. I didn't completely peruse the site you provided, but I am assuming that that Church has a traditional Christian understanding of the Trinity and Baptizes using water and the "father, son and holy spirit" formula. I was Baptized a Southern Baptist for Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147810121980218032006-05-16T21:08:00.000+01:002006-05-16T21:08:00.000+01:00Oh, and then another factor delaying my baptism is...Oh, and then another factor delaying my baptism is the current state of affairs in the Anglican Communion. I wonder whether my church will be kicked out, whether the Communion will split, and what would happen then. I hate this in-fighting and I don't want to pick a side, although I suppose I am a "reasserter" (according to Kendall Harmon's definitions of reasserter and reappraiser). And I wonderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147809786225068802006-05-16T21:03:00.000+01:002006-05-16T21:03:00.000+01:00Thank you again for your comments, Michael. I do u...Thank you again for your comments, Michael. I do understand why a person could be in doubt about the validity of Anglican orders and therefore about the validity of Anglican communion. I didn't read every single word of your blog, but I don't recall your saying whether you had considered Catholicism at all, or why it was Orthodoxy beckoning. <BR/><BR/>Although I have not investigated in detail, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147804702325329672006-05-16T19:38:00.000+01:002006-05-16T19:38:00.000+01:00Thanks very much for your kind words, and for your...Thanks very much for your kind words, and for your explanation of where you've come from as well.<BR/><BR/><I>As an aside, would it be possible to include an initial or pseudonym at the end of your posts? Only, one or two people post anonymously here and I get confused otherwise. ;-) I only knew the recent posts were from the same person because I get e-mail notifications when someone comments Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04972938279831428593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147802115098146482006-05-16T18:55:00.000+01:002006-05-16T18:55:00.000+01:00Thank you Michael. You are very kind. (I suppose y...Thank you Michael. You are very kind. (I suppose you get some sort of log of IP addresses, so you know that the recent anonymous comments are all from the same person (me)?) <BR/><BR/>I enjoyed reading your blog very much. I am still in a state of confusion myself, so perhaps I feel defensive about what looks like it will be my choice (Anglicanism). Never been baptized, so I can't be rebaptized. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147760946124129022006-05-16T07:29:00.000+01:002006-05-16T07:29:00.000+01:00Metropolitan St. Philaret of Moscow said "I dare n...Metropolitan St. Philaret of Moscow said "I dare not call false any who confess Christ as God."<BR/><BR/>Also ultimitly, the Orthodox stand is that Orthodoxy is "The Church." However many are oft to point out that we know where the Holy Spirit is, we do not know where He isn't.<BR/><BR/>Joe ZollarsJohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147738347099186362006-05-16T01:12:00.000+01:002006-05-16T01:12:00.000+01:00"For the sake of the salvation of souls." Meaning ..."For the sake of the salvation of souls." Meaning that their souls will not saved if they remain Anglican or Catholic or Methodist? This really bugs me so, so much. How can the Orthodox deny the Christian baptism and Christian faith of so many faithful and devout Christians?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147383388503953952006-05-11T22:36:00.000+01:002006-05-11T22:36:00.000+01:00Eric, I'm a gardener at heart, so have a hard time...Eric, I'm a gardener at heart, so have a hard time believing it is truly Organic at this point. In gardening terms, no matter how old the graft--its still a graft.<BR/><BR/>Anyways, all that aside, I was inspired to pu up my views on WRO as a seperate post on my blog. Y'all are welcome to correct me there if you wish, but I will speak no more of it here. <BR/><BR/>Jeo ZolalrsJohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147382472972149382006-05-11T22:21:00.000+01:002006-05-11T22:21:00.000+01:00I don't know. It should be available, but I hardl...I don't know. It should be available, but I hardly think it should be the norm (unless a large group of western christians convert en masse). <BR/><BR/>Not to mention WRO if it were to become the primary rite of a national church would seem to say "Hey were just like you, so come on over" much like the UGCC does. <BR/><BR/>Then again it should be said I love the western rite, and do keep my Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147370768207527402006-05-11T19:06:00.000+01:002006-05-11T19:06:00.000+01:00Joe,I would say that, since the WR has been a part...Joe,<BR/><BR/>I would say that, since the WR has been a part of Orthodoxy for 150 years, that it IS organically a part of Orthodoxy now and thus there's nothing to worry about from that angle.Eric Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01020996689956104276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147315466395043182006-05-11T03:44:00.000+01:002006-05-11T03:44:00.000+01:00Ari, I am insulted. it's not about sour grapes. ...Ari, I am insulted. it's not about sour grapes. I still attend western Chruches with a blessing from Father on days that I can't go to Orthodox services. It just doesn't feel right for me. <BR/><BR/>Eric, of course the Eastern Rite is being perfected today. That is the point of my argument against the western rite--its not growing organically from an organic start within the church. <BR/><BRJohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147314218609639092006-05-11T03:23:00.000+01:002006-05-11T03:23:00.000+01:00I agree with Ari. It is important not to get caugh...I agree with Ari. It is important not to get caught up in "surface" issues. The outward form or the point of origin tell us nothing of a liturgy's spiritual value.<BR/><BR/>St. John Maximovitch, while he was in France, was presented with a restored Gallican liturgy--a combination of ancient liturgy, scholarship, and some liturgical adaptation. To him, what made the liturgy Orthodox was not where Eric Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01020996689956104276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147304108812954682006-05-11T00:35:00.000+01:002006-05-11T00:35:00.000+01:00Sour grapes. One should know better..I'd refer to ...Sour grapes. One should know better..<BR/><BR/>I'd refer to the recent post by Fr. Matthew Thurman:<BR/>http://haloscan.com/tb/gthurman/E20060510160809<BR/><BR/>And specifically the words of Fr. Alexander Schmemann:<BR/><BR/>"Whatever the future of the Western rite, it depends, I am sure, on the thirst and hunger for the fullness of the Orthodox faith and on nothing else. Dogmatically, Father Aristibule Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00393651388803251279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11100766.post-1147299435752286112006-05-10T23:17:00.000+01:002006-05-10T23:17:00.000+01:00a very thought provoking post indeed. I still obj...a very thought provoking post indeed. <BR/><BR/>I still object to the Western Rite on the grounds of what I said earlier. its either liturgical archeology (or an adaptation of a historical liturgy that has not grown organically with the faith--thus the WRite experiences I have had, attending occassionally the WRite mission in Wichita, seemed very stilted and not to possess the "natural" Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11821235002785840551noreply@blogger.com